Rapture: Post-Trib Is Everywhere In The Bible

The Rapture is Post-Tribulation, not Pre-Tribulation

The pre-tribulation rapture is everywhere in Christian culture (commentaries, sermons, books, movies), but nowhere in the Bible.

We hear Christians make statements such as “the Bible says the church will be raptured before the Great Tribulation,” and then they move on without citing the verse in which the Bible supposedly says this.

I hear it all the time– from Bible teachers on the radio, and in conversations I have with other Christians. These are godly people, with hearts after God, and I say all of this with love and respect for them. Often when my fellow Christians bring up the pre-trib rapture, I ask them to show it to me in the Bible, and not a single one of them has done it– including pastors who teach it as fact! Most people simply change the subject.

Think about that for a moment. As Protestants, we rarely miss an opportunity to criticize our Catholic friends for adhering to doctrines that are not in the Bible. Yet, when I ask my Protestant Evangelical friends to show me a major Protestant Evangelical doctrine (the pre-trib rapture) in the Bible, not a single one of them can do it. Houston, we have a problem– and that problem is pride. People have an extremely difficult time admitting they are wrong. What’s more, as Protestant Evangelicals we have an especially hard time admitting we are wrong because we are accustomed to thinking that Catholics have a monopoly on theological errors. We are so busy worrying about splinters in Catholic eyes, that we miss the planks in our Protestant eyes. The pre-trib rapture is a colossal error.

If you don’t believe me, listen to online sermons in which your favorite pre-trib Bible teachers talk about the rapture. Whether you listen to 10, 100, or 1,000 of these sermons, you will never hear one of these teachers cite the verse in which the Bible states the church being raptured before the Great Tribulation– because no such verse exists. Again, I say all this with love and respect to my pre-trib brothers and sisters. I used to be one of you. But after reading the Bible cover to cover, I saw that a rapture happens at the day of the Lord, not seven years before it. The Bible clearly, repeatedly, and unambiguously asserts that the rapture is post-tribulation.

Although the pre-trib rapture is nowhere in the Bible, it is so prominent in today’s Bible commentaries, that the church simply imposes it upon the Biblical text. I warn over and over on this website about relying on commentaries. The Bible is 66 books by 40 authors written over many centuries. God designed the Bible to be its own commentary system. We have no need for external commentaries, and our heavy reliance upon them has injected false doctrines into the church, one of the biggest being the pre-tribulation rapture.

Here is what the Bible has to say:

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Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time… Hebrews 9:28

  • The Bible asserts two Comings of Christ– not 2.5. The church has invented a sorta-kinda coming of Christ, in which Christ descends to cloud level, raptures the church, and then reverses direction and goes back up. However, this is nowhere in the Bible.
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, did God mistakenly leave out the fact that Jesus is supposed to reverse direction and go back up, or did you mistakenly add it in?

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…it is a righteous thing with God to… give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance… ~ 2 Thessalonians 1:8

  • Pre-trib rapture theory says the church is raptured before the Great Tribulation begins, and that Jesus returns seven years after the Great Tribulation begins. However, the Bible knows no such sequence of events.
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, why do you say rest will come seven years before Jesus is revealed in flaming vengeance, when the Bible states that this rest comes when Jesus is revealed in flaming vengeance?

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He [Christ] must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything… ~ Acts 3:21

  • The Bible clearly states that Christ will remain in heaven “until the time comes for God to restore everything.”
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, why do you say that Christ will leave heaven to meet the church in the air seven years before the time comes to restore everything, when the Bible clearly states that Christ WILL NOT leave heaven until the time comes to restore everything? Did God mistakenly omit from the Bible Christ’s other exit from heaven, or did you mistakenly add it in?

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“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. ~ Luke 17:28-29

  • Pre-tribbers constantly mention that Lot was taken out of Sodom before God destroyed it. This, they say, is evidence that the rapture will occur seven years before the 2nd Coming of Christ. However, pre-tribbers NEVER read aloud the actual verse to back up their claim, because the actual verse states that Lot left Sodom the day it was destroyed, not seven years before the day. This follows perfectly with the fact that a rapture happens on the day of the Lord, not seven years before it.
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, why do you mention that Lot left Sodom before God destroyed it, but conveniently fail to mention that he left Sodom the day it was destroyed, not seven years before the day?

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For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first [rapture]. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air [rapture]. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words. Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:2

  • Look at the sequence of events:
  1. The Lord descends
  2. Rapture
  3. Day of The Lord (God’s wrath upon his enemies via the 2nd Coming of Christ, the same Christ who began his descent in the first sentence).
  • The Bible says NOTHING about the Great Tribulation occurring between event #2 (rapture) and #3 (Day of the Lord). I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, did God mistakenly leave the Great Tribulation out of this sequence, or did you mistakenly add it in?
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, does God mistakenly describe event #1 (The Lord’s descent) and #2 (rapture) as occurring on the “day of the Lord,” or do you mistakenly describe these events as occurring seven years before the day of the Lord?

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…there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be [the Great Tribulation]… “Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather [rapture] together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ~ Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:20-31

  • The Bible asserts two Comings of Christ, not 2.5. The First Coming was in a manger in Bethlehem. The 2nd Coming is at the Day of the Lord, immediately prior to which (not seven years prior to which) God will “gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” Jesus Christ himself tells us that this happens after the Great Tribulation.
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters: Why do you say that Jesus gathers together his elect before the Great Tribulation in a sorta-kinda coming that is nowhere in the Bible, when Jesus himself says that he will gather his elect after the Great Tribulation at his 2nd Coming?

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Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. ~ 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

  • I have heard it taught countless times by pre-trib Bible teachers that this “last trumpet” is before the Great Tribulation. Yet the Bible clearly asserts another trumpet after the Great Tribulation:

…there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be [the Great Tribulation]… “Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather [rapture] together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ~ Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:20-31

  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters: Who got it wrong, God or the person who invented the pre-trib rapture?

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Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him… that day will not come untilthe man of lawlessness is revealed… ~ 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

  • The false “Doctrine of Imminence” asserts that the return of Christ can happen any time, and has no pre-condition.
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, why do you say that the return of Christ has no pre-condition when the Bible clearly states that Christ will not return until the man of lawlessness is revealed?

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…as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. ~ 1 Corinthians 1:7

…as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. ~ Jude 21

  • The false “Doctrine of Imminence” assumes that the return of Christ can happen at any time, and has no precondition. This false assumption is based on verses like those above, whereby Christians who were alive just after Jesus’ ascension back into heaven express their anticipation of his return. To these verses I say, so what? What’s the big deal? These Christians did not know when the 2nd Coming of Christ would be, so they eagerly awaited it. Jesus HIMSELF did not know when his 2nd coming would be, so he could not have told them even if he wanted to! “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” ~  Jesus Christ, Mark 13:32
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, how could Jesus have told his followers the exact time of his 2nd Coming when he HIMSELF did not know this information?

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I will tear them to pieces and go away; I will carry them off, with no one to rescue them. Then I will go back to my place until they admit their guilt. And they will seek my face; in their misery they will earnestly seek me.” ~ Hosea 5:14-6:1

  • The false and man-made “Doctrine of Imminence” assumes that the return of Christ can happen any time, and has no pre-condition. But the Bible clearly asserts at least two pre-conditions for Christ’s return: 1) The man of lawlessness must be revealed, 2) Israel must admit their guilt. I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters: Who got it wrong, God or the person who invented the “Doctrine of Imminence”?

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To the seven churches in the province of Asia… to [1] Ephesus, [2] Smyrna, [3] Pergamum, [4] Thyatira, [5] Sardis, [6] Philadelphia and [7] Laodicea. ~ Revelaton 1:4-11

  • Pre-trib theory asserts that because the church is not mentioned in Revelation after Chapter 3, it must have been raptured out. Sure, the church is not mentioned after Chapter 3 of Revelation, but it is not mentioned before or during Chapter 3 either. The seven letters in Revelation are not addressed to “the church.” They are addressed to seven specific churches in a specific nation– Turkey.
The seven churches of Revelation are in turkey

All seven churches of Revelation are in modern-day Turkey. (Image Source: holylandphotos.org) Church names circled by alwaysproventrue.com.

  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, why do you disagree with replacement theology when it comes to churches giving themselves permission to replace Israel as God’s chosen people, but not when it comes to replacing “the seven churches in the Province of Asia [Turkey]” with “the church”?
  • I respectfully ask my pre-trib brothers and sisters, by what right do you ignore the geography to which the Son of God directs our end-times attention when he addresses not one, not two, not three, but seven churches in that geography?

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I’ll stop there, but I could go on. The pre-trib rapture is merely a tradition of men, not the word of God. I respectfully suggest to my pre-trib brothers and sisters that the pre-trib viewpoint is reached by doing the opposite of what the Bereans did:

Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. ~ Acts 17:11

The Bereans examined the words of the Bible to verify the words of Bible teachers. However, I have observed (with few exceptions) that asking a Christian to rationally consider a Bible verse that contradicts his favorite Bible teacher is not going to win you any popularity contests (to say the least). But that’s okay, friendship with the world is enmity with God. If the Bible does not match what our favorite teachers say, we must disregard our favorite teachers, not the Bible.

Another observation I’ve made is that many Christians don’t know the difference between the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord.

  • The Great Tribulation: The Antichrist unleashing hell on earth
  • Day of the Lord: God’s wrath via the 2nd Coming of Christ

Which one of these will the church not suffer? Just ask the Bible.

For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. ~ 1 Thessalonians 5:8-10

The church will absolutely, positively, 100% go through the Great Tribulation. The Bible makes this so clear!

All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. ~ Mark 13:13

but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. ~ Matthew 24:13

To him who overcomes and does my will to the end , I will give authority over the nations ~ Jesus Christ, Revelation 2:26

Note, these verses do not say, “he who stands firm until seven years before the end will be saved.”

A speeding train called the Great Tribulation is approaching, and legions in the church are standing on the tracks. They have been taught that they will be raptured off the tracks before they have anything to worry about, and they never bothered to do as the Bereans did– that is, to verify what they heard from Bible teachers with what is actually written in the Bible. These are godly people learning the word from godly Bible teachers, and everyone involved has the best of intentions. Nonetheless, when the train hits, many will be shocked and disillusioned, and will fall away from the faith.

The Bible is always proven true.

42 replies »

  1. I guess I’m a little confused, I agree with you regarding the tribulation. I believe Christians will go through this according to Bible Prophecy But I haven’t seen “any” scriptures which refer to the Rapture. When Jesus comes and the dead rises and those left, bodies change instantly, this leaves me to believe this is the resurrection and not a rapture….Could you provide me with scriptures you base “the rapture” on?

    Really enjoyed reading this…many, many blessings to you…Robin

    • Robin,

      Below are the verses I believe refer to a “rapture.” True, the word rapture “rapture” is not in the Bible, but neither is the word “trinity.” It is the words I put in caps that point to what seems more like a “rapture” than just a resurrection. Let me know your take on this. Thank you and blessings!

      For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are STILL ALIVE and are left will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

      alwaysproventrue.com

      • Please respond? I desperately need to converse with someone about this subject, I’m starving to reason with people about this. I support the post trib.

      • Is there any possible way we could actually talk? It will take to long otherwise. Are you an SDA? I want to talk because I’m entrenched in a pre trib area and I feel God has called me to this. I’m starving for real dialogue. My pastor is a pre tribber and if you believe it, it messes up a lot of your other eschatology. I feel I will never grow at this church and I can’t find a non pre trib church.

      • Justen,

        What does “SDA” mean?

        I exist in pre-trib circles as well. Post-tribbers are growing in numbers, but as of now, we are few and far between.

      • I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, but I have nothing against them. I have to go, but I can continue the conversation in the morning. God bless.

      • K, just wondering. I don’t have anything against them either, but I am against twisting scripture to fit there doctrines, which there doctrines force them to do. The reason I asked was because most of them are post. Think about this until next time you respond, are you finished forming your eschatological views?

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  2. Well, my eschatological views are sound as I see things right now. However, I have learned much from observing the modern American Evangelical church’s anti-Berean behavior in refusing to examine two of its most prominent doctrines (the pre-trib rapture, and the revived Roman Empire) against what the Bible actually says. Therefore, I am always willing to listen to new findings or suggestions and compare them against what the Bible says. Having said that, do you have a finding you want me to consider?

    • First of all, thanks for talking with me. Do you realize how much the pre trib rapture thing messes up eschatological views? For example, many people think that Satan will be cast to the earth sometime within the final seven years, that is not true. It also muddies the Daniel’s seventy week prophesy. Most people don’t know why Revelation 13 starts out talking about a beast, Revelation does not call this final guy “AntiChrist” one time, but calls him “The Beast” for a reason, so you can trace him back all the way to Daniel’s time so that you will know exactly were this guy will come from.???

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      • Okay, I’m interested. I’ll venture a guess and say you’re thinking Iraq because Nebuchadnezzar was given the heart of a beast?

      • I’m not there right now, but the first beast will come from Rome or the revived Roman Empire. The key is to identify the beast and all it’s heads, crowns, and horns all the way to Rev 13 and to now! Are you aware that Satan and his angels have already been cast to the earth? I can show you from scripture exactly when, from scripture alone. May iron sharpen iron.

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      • Sure, post your scriptures and I will absolutely look into what you are saying. Thanks.

      • The evolution of the beast through time is very detailed and takes along time, and we can do that because I’m sure you’ll help me along because it’s pretty tough and I could be wrong about certain things. For now I would be honored if you would watch my video strictly about Satan being cast to the earth, it is titled ;Revelation 12 Satan and his angels were cast to the earth. By Noreputation 1424 on You Tube. Let me know what you think.

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      • Okay, I started watching but did not have time to finish. I will watch the whole video and reply here this week. Whether we end up agreeing or not, thank you for your service to the Lord! I will comment this week.

  3. I agree with you that Satan and his angels were already cast to earth.

    However, I don’t see any Biblical geographical link between Rome and any beast. The Bible is very specific about geography, and all the geography about which it warns us is in the Middle East, and all of it is today Islamic.

    Revelation 13:1-4
    Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns [the nations and rulers of the coming revived Islamic caliphate, led by Turkey] and on his heads a blasphemous name [this is the “bismallah,” or “in the name of Allah” that we see on the headbands of Islamic fighters]. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard [Leopard = Greek Empire, this is Biblical Yavan (Ionia), which is modern-day Turkey, which is Islamic], his feet were like the feet of a bear [Bear = Persian Empire, modern-day Iran, which is Islamic], and his mouth like the mouth of a lion [Lion = Babylonian Empire, modern-day Iraq, which is Islamic]. The dragon [Satan] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded [The Islamic Turkish Ottoman Empire was mortally wounded in 1923, and is reviving before our eyes in Turkey every night on the evening news] and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast [Just look at how the politicians, the media, and celebrities fawn over, and make excuses for, Islam]. So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” [Turkey is the 2nd largest army in Nato behind the U.S., and even beyond Islamic Turkey, Jihad is growing on a worldwide scale. Indeed, who can make war with the beast? The powerful nations of the West can, and will.] ~ Revelation 13:1-4.

    I respectfully submit that I do not see (in the Bible) any reference to the beast beginning in Rome and then evolving to another part of the world.

    Thank you.

    • Thanks, I am totally open to being taught and listening about the beasts. I am currently beginning to study it. When you have time help me to see what your talking about, the main thing I’ve been exposed to is Rome and the Papacy, show me how that’s incorrect. I mean it, I am open to listening. Start with the Daniel 2 statue if you would. We also have to dissect the time layers of Rev 13, as especially pre tribbers like to put it all in a strictly futuristic context. I am looking to start a group of men who are zealous for the truth about eschatology, true Bareans, without pride, building off of each other, and realizing that what we believe in theses matters must be challenged, and at times knocked down and rebuilt continually (at least in some areas), iron sharpening iron. Most are not willing to do this, but I think this is how God does it, where it’s not just about us and what I (we) have figured out. Weather you will directly be a part of this or not, you are already contributing, and I thank you. Please pray for God to do this work. I do not intend to be the leader or the head of such a group if it comes to pass, but I definitely consider my self a catalyst.

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  4. Your zeal and determination are inspiring! Keep up the good work!

    Western Protestants see the Bible through a Western Protestant lens. This means that:

    A) They read the Bible with a Western-centric point of reference, i.e. Europe. However, the Bible is an Eastern book (MIDDLE Eastern, to be specific), not a Western Book.

    B) They read the Bible as Protestants, always applying a strong anti-Catholic bias to the text.

    I will expound here upon point A. The Bible is very geographically specific. God does NOT leave us guessing about where the end times threat to his people (Jews and Christians) will come from. It is the Middle East. I invite you to read the “My Big, Fat, Greek Revived Empire” Series I wrote. It’s in the “Categories” column on the right side of this website. Please also read what’s in the “Ezekiel 38” and “Russia” categories. All the Biblical references are there, chapter and verse, so I won’t reinvent the wheel and list them all here too. Western Protestants go out of their way to put Europe in the Bible as an enemy of God when the Bible does not such thing. Yes, Western civilization has turned her back on God. The European nations that have crosses on their flags (there are many such nations) because they were founded as Christian nations have all but forgotten the God of Israel. America too has largely turned her back on the God of Israel. However, it is what’s in the Bible that matters, not what’s in the heart of our evil politicians. The Bible does not name a single European nation (including Rome) as being a recipient of Messiah’s personal wrath at his 2nd coming. All such nations are Middle Eastern.

    I will expound here upon point B. Indeed, I have many theological disagreements with the Catholic church. However, there is a verse in the Bible that so definitively, specifically, and forcefully excludes the Catholic church as being the system of the Antichrist, that it is truly astounding that Western Protestantism has missed (or more likely, IGNORED) it for so long. Here it is:

    1 John 2:22-23
    Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist — HE DENIES THE FATHER AND THE SON.

    Catholics DO NOT deny the Father and the Son. Muslims do! In fact, denial that God has a Son is a central tenet of Islam (see “Antichrist: Part II” on this website). Catholics begin and end every mass by blessing themselves in the name of the Father, AND OF THE SON, and of the Holy Spirit. This excludes the Catholic church as the system of the Antichrist.

    Furthermore, the Bible says that in the end times, ships from “Chittim” will oppose the Antichrist.

    Daniel 11:29-30
    At the time appointed he [The Antichrist] shall return, and come toward the south [Egypt]; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. For the ships of CHITTIM shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved [defeated], and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant [vent his frustration against Israel]: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant [them that forsake the holy covenant will be Leftist Israelis that hate Israel and eagerly help the Antichrist invade her].

    In the first fulfillment of this prophecy, these ships of Chittim were ships of the Roman Empire– the very empire that American Evangelicals say will revive to become the beast empire of the end times. (Read “My Big, Fat, Greek Revived Empire: Part III” for a thorough treatment of the this subject). The very empire (Rome) that opposed the prototype Antichrist (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) is the empire that Western Evangelicals say will BE the system of the ultimate Antichrist. This makes no sense whatsoever. It inverts the truth. The Bible is pointing to Rome as the nation that opposed the prototype Antichrist because it will also be one of the nations that ultimately oppose THE Antichrist. Islamists hate Rome because it is (as they see it) the capital of Christianity. The Antichrist will aim to destroy Rome. The Antichrist will not (nor did he ever) come from Rome.

    I am thankful for your search for truth because it is very rare in the church. Modern Western Protestants, while claiming to be “Bible believers,” largely stick to the script of their church rather than to what the Bible says. When their church contradicts the Bible, they throw out the Bible. They do the opposite of what the Bereans did. The fact that you long to be a Berean (not the opposite of what) is commendable. Again, keep up the good work!

    • I agree with most of what your saying. I need to be thoroughly shown how Daniel 11 is futuristic. The Daniel 2 statue is the key, so how do we know weather it’s Rome or not (the legs and toes)? I have no problem letting go of Rome producing the final guy. The Vatican has to be the harlot though right? They are just waiting to apostatize and temporarily join with Islam. Then Islam will turn on her and burn her with fire? Have you picked up on why the book of Revelation does not use the word Anti Christ once, continually calling him “The Beast”. Later it changes the beast from the earth to “The False Prophet” while still calling the first guy “The Beast”. Have you read Mid East Beast? I agree with the denying the Father and Son. I will read your articles in the mean time.

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  5. Regarding the futuristic nature of Daniel 11, consider the first verse of Daniel 12:

    Daniel 12:1
    AT THAT TIME (that is, at the time just described in Daniel 11) Michael, the great prince who protects your people [the Jews], will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then [the Great Tribulation].

    Regarding the Harlot who will be burned with fire, I believe this is Mecca. Islamists hate Saudi Arabia and other than Israel and America, Saudi Arabia is the nation they want most to destroy. This is astounding because Saudi Arabia contains the most holy place in Islam, Mecca! This fits the Bible perfectly. The very item around which Muslims march in a circle every year during the Hajj is the “woman” who rides the beast. It’s a graphically literal fulfillment of the “woman” prophecy. Check out “Antichrist Part III.”

    • The harlot must be a Harlot to God and Christ, not a harlot to an already false religion. Reference this to the Levitical priest hood. If a priest’s daughter is a harlot she must be burned with fire (Leviticus 21:9). That makes a lot of sense (Mecca), accept we are down to two poll positions just like the materials of the statue, a harlot within Islam or a harlot to God. Claiming Him (through Jesus) yet committing spiritual fornication. There must be a marriage or commitment to each other for it to be harlotry. Don’t you think? Hers one, if you dare? Daniel 9:24 has already been fulfilled. Yet most people can not understand this without changing to an a millennialist position. I think you’ll disagree but if I can get you to see these poll positions and how polarizing they really are. A big thing that’s going on over here is that SDA’s and other compromised denominations are doing a better job with eschatology then evangelicals because of exactly what you said. The Adventists are big on Rome and obviously the Catholic Church. But they are great researchers but you will see when they are confined to those lenses. Yet the seventy weeks have already been fulfilled and Jesus already confirmed a covenant with many. I will show you that soon from a ppt slide I made. I will read your articles and please chew on what I’ve just said and I’ll get back with you tomorrow or Monday with that ppt slide.

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  6. I see harlotry as prostitution, not necessarily adulterous prostitution. Harlotry can be associated with marriage, but it need not be. The harlot of Revelation is, in my opinion, a woman who spreads her Satanic theology the world over by having intercourse with the rulers of the world. The world’s rulers give Saudi Arabia money for Saudi Arabia’s oil. With this money, Saudi Arabia spreads Wahabist Islam all over the world, and sheds rivers of Christian blood in the process.

    Revelation 19:2-3
    “He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication [oil and Wahabism]; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her.” [No system on earth has shed more Christian blood than Islamism, and continues to do so.]

    As you guessed, I do not believe that all seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24 have already been fulfilled, but I’ll wait to see your findings.

    Blessings and thank you.

    • I couldn’t help reply, but as intended I will go deeper into the harlot study. I think the bible’s definition of a harlot must be foundational though. This is great, I hope to hear your testimony soon too.

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  7. Okay, I agree, the Bible’s definition must be foundational. It’s an interesting topic, and thanks for bringing it up. As I see it, marriage need not be demonstrated for a woman to be referred to as a “harlot” in the Bible– Rahab the harlot being the most prominent example, but several others exist. Harlotry is prostitution.

    One last point while it’s on my mind. I think the geographic hint in the following verses is crucial:

    Revelation 17:1-3
    One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters [take a look at the Arabian peninsula]. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine [Saudi Arabia’s oil] of her adulteries.”

    Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a DESERT [Rome is not a desert. Mecca IS a desert.] There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

    Just wanted to write that all down while it was on my mind. Take care.

    • Sounds good, one thing is that you and I both know that it doesn’t have to be an actual desert. It also tells you what the waters are later. Consider this, the difference between what the bible calls the world and the current world, perhaps with Daniel 12’s many traveling to and from in mind. Can we keep the historical perspective of the world with these prophecies or free them out of strictly the Middle East? I do not feel strongly or at least enough to defend that the seven mountains must mean the Vatican. However it seems the root of all this is the Daniel 2 statue, all hinging upon the legs down being Rome or not. I can’t wait to share with you what my cousin shared with me about her initial FBI training. Perhaps shortly. Consider the story and context of Hosea as far as a harlot, as well as Nineveh in Nahum 3. I do agree and admit that a harlot and prostitute are the same thing. Have you heard the theory that The Roman Catholic church created Islam. Either way there is a church that claims the name of Jesus that is already apostatizing with Islam, through The Common Word Document (http://youtu.be/iiMYRzFR2ZM ) please watch!

      Sent from my iPhone

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  8. You may know that, but I certainly do not. I say it DOES have to be an actual desert. The problem is the textual contortions (such as saying that it does not have to be an actual desert) that are imposed upon the Bible to make the Catholic church fit the system of the Antichrist, when it Biblically does not fit.

    • Contextual contortion? And example please. I did say I could be wrong about that, show me how it has to be a literal desert? Consider the wilderness or desert of Rev 12. Keep in mind I don’t KNOW that your wrong or that I’m right, but how would you bring me to that conclusion?

      Sent from my iPhone

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  9. Let me point out what you have done so far. You have brought up FBI instructors, Seventh Day Adventists, your cousin, and 9/11, but you have not overturned the fact that the Bible geographically and theologically excludes the Catholic church from being the system of the Antichrist. This conversation has gone on long enough. I wish you all the best in your research on these topics. Take care. You needn’t post anything further because it will be deleted. Thank you.

  10. Another crucial passage on the timing of the rapture is Revelation 3:10, in which Christ promises to deliver believers from the “hour of trial” that is going to come upon the earth. This could mean two things. Either Christ will protect believers in the midst of the trials, or He will deliver believers out of the trials. Both are valid meanings of the Greek word translated “from.” However, it is important to recognize what believers are promised to be kept from. It is not just the trial, but the “hour” of trial. Christ is promising to keep believers from the very time period that contains the trials, namely the tribulation. The purpose of the tribulation, the purpose of the rapture, the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, and the interpretation of Revelation 3:10 all give clear support to the pre-tribulational position. If the Bible is interpreted literally and consistently, the pre-tribulational position is the most biblically-based interpretation.

  11. Nowhere in Revelation 3:10 does Jesus promise to deliver “believers” from anything. In Revelation 3:10, Jesus speaks to a specific church in a specific place, Philadelphia, in modern-day Turkey.

    The pre-tribulation rapture heresy goes hand-in-hand with the revived Roman Empire heresy. In order to sledge hammer both of these man-made heresies into Christian culture, pre-tribbers ignore the words of the Son of God himself in which he dictates not one, not two, not three, but SEVEN letters to churches in modern-day Turkey. He did this to direct our end-times attention to Turkey. However, the Turkish geographical specificity of Christ’s seven letters contradicts the man-made heresy that a revived Roman (not Turkish) Empire will be the Antichrist’s end-times empire, so pre-tribbers simply ignore Jesus Christ, and allegorize those seven specific churches in seven specific Turkish cities as “the church.” Just as lie begets lie, and one must keep inventing new lies to cover the tracks of his first lie, heresy begets heresy and one must keep inventing new heresies to cover the tracks of their first heresy.

    The Islamic Ottoman Turkish Empire is the empire of the Antichrist, and the devastation it is about to inflict on Israel and the Jewish people will be ground zero for the Great Tribulation. True Christians will help the Jews during the Great Tribulation, and suffer terribly for it.

    Thank you for your comment.

  12. Tom
    God is working through you and his work is amazing. You are correct in all that you say and God’s word backs your every point. Just a thought and a suggestion, perhaps you may want to add the the end time topic and write about the “number of the beast 666”. In other words, tell the reader what John saw, what he read when he saw the number 666. How the Greek number 666 looked like and what that translated to in the Arab (In the name of Alah) language. This will catch many peoples attention.
    Efrain

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